Advice on wireless IP cam suitable for embedding in website

[IanD]

I'm looking to set up a wireless router and IP camera for a friend in Portugal. The camera feed will then be embedded in the website I am creating in Scotland.

I'm looking for advice on what cameras are suitable and how to get a feed that can be used in Firefox and without having to get users to log in.

No need for viewers to have control over the camera - just a fixed stream or regular stills in the order of say fifteen a minute.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Dwayne]

there are solutions you can use with almost any camera as long it supports frequent upload of images to a website.

Many cameras support uploading images in given intervals, eg 5 sec or less. You let the camera upload its images to a subdir of your website hosting, and then use a flash or javascript to refresh the image within your website. This solution has some advantages and disadvanteges:

Plus:
- The user does not access the camera directly
- no limit of users of parallel viewing (cameras are often limited to 10 users)
- easy implementation

Minus:
- low refrash rate (maximum of 2 or 3 frames/sec)

The other alternative would be using a camera supporting MJPEG streaming like the new model of y-cam black (not in sale yet) and have it directly embedded in your website. For a good frame rate you need a good uplink bandwidth of the internet connection, but it is unlikely you get 30 fps. It can be setup so you don't need to log in as user for viewing the stream

plus:
- Better frame rates

minus:
- user access the camera directly
- user access the local lan where the camera is located (security risk)
- parallel viewing is limited and will result in lower fps at parallel viewing

now there is a mix of both solutions by using a restreaming service. There you add your camera, and it is constantly streaming to that service. The service is providing a stream for your users.

Plus:
- maximum framerate for all users depending on uplink bandwith of cameras internet connection
- no (technical) restriction on parallel viewers
- no user access to the cameras lan

minus
- service unlikely to be found for free

I hope that overlook gives you a bit insight.

Dwayne

[IanD]

Thanks Dwayne,

Ideally I'd like to have a stream to the web page, but it needs to be viewable both in IE and Firefox.

I don't want to have a clunky interface showing, but would rather have a clean box that users can view, but not change (if possible).

I'm open to ideas on software that may achieve this from the camera feed (I see you've mentioned Blueiris but don't know if that works), or java script that can take the feed.

I need to be able to have control over the camera to perform reset etc as Scotland and Portugal are not exactly next door to each other!

[Dwayne]

Hi Ian,

well lets talk. I recommend you have a look in this topic:

http://www.networkcamerareviews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1822&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

As you can read there, you hardly have chance to transmit 30 fps through the internet from a standard dsl account, where you have your camera set up.

Additionally, if you use whatever program locally for restreaming you have the same restrictions, if you want to receive 30 fps from the camera you would have to set it up locally, but then again you are not able to transmit it to the internet, not talking of multiple access.

So what we need now are a few informations: what uplink will the camera popably have? do you want to restream it? where? what uplink do you have available there?

I also recommend you have a look at http://www.obxsurfinfo.com
this is made with an axis cam, periodically uploading images to webspace, and then a flash used for refreshing the images.

Check it out if this good enough for your purpose.

Dwayne

[IanD]

Hi Dwayne,

30fps is not a requirement. I've previously set up a Linksys WVC200 using MPEG4 which gives a perfectly acceptable stream at 640 x 480. Not sure what the fps will be, but it looks around 10fps or a bit better.

This would be fine if I could find a way to access the camera through Firefox and without the clunky Linksys interface.

I'm happy if I can get a 320 x 240 image streaming at about 10fps on a page viewable with Firefox. That rules out activex controls as I don't want viewers to be faced with the need to download any files to view the stream.

I'll check with the person the site is for if the surf page is good enough - it may be OK for people walking about.

Given my needs above, so you have any suggestions (even ideas as to how to get a camera such as the WVC200 embedded in a web page viewable with Firefox).

Thanks for the help so far.

Ian

[Dwayne]

hte main problem still will be the uplink. it is possible to setup a cam so ONE user can watch it at 10 fps - but what if you have 10 20 people accesing the cam? even if it is embedded in a website without the other stuff around.

the uplink for sure cannot handle 10 times 10 fps

so the more users you got the less fps you will have.

[IanD]

OK - so the fps will be limited.

Given that factor, what are sensible options to pursue and are there any particular hardware and software options that are worth looking at?

Again, the camera should be viewable via firefox and I would like to have the ability to reset it remotely (as i can with the WVC200).

[Dwayne]

first of all: the factor of limited fps are only a matter of given uplink stream, no matter what kind of camera you will be using. but I guess I have pointed out that as much as possible now

coming back to the browser issue: check for a camera which does also support mjpeg or single jpeg as well as mpeg4. Mpeg4 usually use an active x component.

I have recently tested out the new model of y-cam black which also is viewable with firefox, but this camera type is not available in stores yet. the current version of the y-cam black does not support this, and it also cannot be updated (!!!)

I guess it will be a couple of weeks until it is available in stores.

another important subject is the remote reset option you look for. This will be a tough issue, as I do not know of any camera supporting this, if the cam freezes, the reset option is also not available.

What I can think of is using a lan board with switches, which you can turn on and off remotely through the internal web site. So you can cut power to the camera and repower it to reset if it freezes. I got somewhere information on this and will let you know what I have in mind later. However I am on a business trip till the weekend, so don't expect anything earlier.

will the camera be indoor or outdoor?

[IanD]

The camera will probably be outdoor, but protected under the soffit, so does not need to be a specific outdoor model.

The WVC200 I have already set up allows a reset from the control software. This is only accessible through IE, but that is fine as I'm happy to use this for control.

Timing will be a real issue here as the camera needs to be shipped to Portugal by the 25th of April and I need to run over the configuration beforehand while it is still here.

Any other possible models or ways of getting an mjpeg feed on a website? The WVC200 does offer this, so I could start working on the camera I've already set up to find out what I need to do.

Thanks again,

Ian

[viazard]

anyone know how to hack the DCS 950 image.. i just want the image but not the frame..this is for my final year project.. pls.. if anyone could help.. i need this asap

[IanD]

Need to get the camera sorted out this week and am tempted by an Axis 207W.

Looks like it will give me wireless connection to the router, various ways to configure, remote restart, etc.

The obxsurfinfo works fine in firefox. How was that done and is the 207W suitable for this?

Thanks.

[Dwayne]

the surfing site also uses an axis camera.

The camera is set up to perodically upload the most recent image to the webspace via ftp. Then a flash applet is used for refreshing the image, but there can be used various different ways refreshing the image.

if you need further information let me know.

[IanD]

Thanks Dwayne,

Do you reckon this camera is a good choice (as I don't have the time to wait for the y-cam black).

If there are any others that would be better, what would you suggest?

Ian

[Dwayne]

Hi Ian,

if you choose to use the periodical upload you can choose any camera which does support that, no matter if the stream only can be watched with an active x applet, because you aren't using it.

I know Axis only by the word of mouth, but from what I heard you get a good camera for your money. Mr Sots is an expert to axis as far as I know.

Very important in your choice is, that you choose a camera which is able to upload the picture always by the same filename! many cameras (including the y-cam black old model) upload the images using the date and time as filename, and you need to work around a bit to get that solved out, otherwise your webspace will be filled with images sooner or later.

The axis cam does support fixed filename image upload, and to my knowledge it is pretty stable.

[IanD]

Have gone for Axis 211 with outdoor housing. Decided that running ethernet to router would be fine. Should be arriving early this week for me to test before it is taken out to Portugal.